Higher than BMW/Merc/Audi/Jag, but lower than Ferrari/Lambo/Aston/etc?

"MegaSuper" (megasuper) 06/22/2015 at 21:45 • Filed to: None

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Just in terms of brand perception/”class”/image, is there a brand that’s at a higher-tier than BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, and Jaguar, but lower than Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, McLaren, Bentley, and Rolls-Royce? (If one of these isn’t like the others, correct me!) Something in-between?

Something that would make an observer think “oh…yeah that exists” or “What a left-field choice!”

I thought about this, and I guess the best I can come up with is Lotus. Looks exotic, but doesn’t always have the exotic price. In terms of “image” it’s not “executive”, it’s not “bling-bling”, it’s just sort of “racer/British shed-style/err what is that.”

Anything else like this? Maybe Land Rover I guess, because depending on the model, it can be “rugged farmer” to “family car” to “urbanite” to “LA celebrity/British Royal Family levels of bling.”

Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. > MegaSuper 06/22/2015 at 21:48

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Daewoo.

SaveTheIntegras > MegaSuper 06/22/2015 at 21:50

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Porsche seems like a good median between those two lists. It’s more luxurious than the first, but not so much ‘bling bling’ (outside the GT cars) as the second list

Wobbles the Mind > MegaSuper 06/22/2015 at 21:51

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Maserati

DylanToback > MegaSuper 06/22/2015 at 21:57

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I would argue that Jag is actually a good fit for your description. And really belongs between the two groups rather than in the first. They are significantly less common than the German luxury brands and their cars seem to convey a very different image.

Also, maybe Alfa Romeo (in the U.S. At least).

MegaSuper > SaveTheIntegras 06/22/2015 at 21:57

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You’re quite right, but I’ve always been a bit confused about how people see them, in the USA at least. In reviews I’ve read, some call the Carrera an “executive” car, or they’ll say that the Cayman is for “real drivers,” and the Carrera is for “social climbers.”

Then some people say Boxsters are for “people with a hair-piece,” so isn’t that like the Corvette image?

Is this a case of each car having its own “image” rather than the brand itself? Would the Carrera, Turbo S, and GT3 all be seen differently, or is it just all “ooh Porsche fancy” to most people?

MegaSuper > Wobbles the Mind 06/22/2015 at 21:57

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Great answer! Especially true now that they have the Ghibli, and soon the Levante.

roboro > MegaSuper 06/22/2015 at 21:59

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I'd say Maserati for sure

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > MegaSuper 06/22/2015 at 21:59

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I’d probably bump Aston into the Maserati camp.

The fact is that BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and Lexus already have two tiers in their product lines (Jaguar used to, they will again soon). Acura competes with their lower tier, exclusively, if not a little lower.

MegaSuper > DylanToback 06/22/2015 at 22:00

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Yes, I was definitely having second thoughts about whether or not to include Jag on there. They do seem a bit more “hairy-chested” / less clinical in terms of how their cars are described. Compare for instance, halo models: F-Type vs i8 are just wildly different.

What do you mean though by “Convey a very different image” ? What do people think in the US when they see one?

Alfa is a good point, but I think it’s still too early, in the US at least. At this point in time they’ve just made exotics in the past decade, haha.

SaveTheIntegras > MegaSuper 06/22/2015 at 22:01

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Personally..I think each car has and creates its own image. Then again there are a ton of Porsche’s in my area and people just seem to stop and stare no matter what specific car it is

MegaSuper > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 06/22/2015 at 22:03

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Really? You mean, you’d bump Aston lower?

Why is this? Is it because Aston sort of sits in the middle of the sports-luxury continuum? (Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren on one side, Bentley, Rolls-Royce, and throw in Maybach on the other, haha).

I do wonder about them a lot. Their models have been around for so long, and from everything I’ve read, they’re gorgeous, classy, and just ooze style, but they aren’t competitive. AMV8 is outpaced and outdriven by F-Type, Carrera, AMG GT, etc. Rapide has poor use of interior space/ergonomics. Then these rumours of the DBX Crossover…just not really sure where they’re headed. I mean, how do you improve upon a design like the DB9’s? Haha. They’re cool but seem like a lot of money for what you’re getting.

It seems increasingly probable to me that they’ll get purchased by AMG.

Last thing: Are you saying that Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura are not viewed as equals in the US? I’d love to know more, explain if you can.

MegaSuper > SaveTheIntegras 06/22/2015 at 22:05

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Oh wow that’s pretty cool! So many reviews/comments I’ve read on Jalopnik/American car magazines mention “…but you see Porsches everywhere” or “the Alfa/Lotus/whatever is a more noticeable choice” or something.

DylanToback > MegaSuper 06/22/2015 at 22:12

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It very well could just be my own perception, but I feel that people tend to view the German brands as something of a default choice when looking for a nice car that functions, at least to some extent, as a status symbol. As much as I like German cars, and BMW in particular, I think that a large portion of the customer base in that market makes their car decision in much the same way as the people who buy Camrys. The car is simply another appliance, another necessity. There is very little emotion involved in the decision. That said, the criteria for purchase are slightly different since nobody buys a Camry to impress the neighbors.

I have never seen anyone purchase a Jaguar in the same way. It is a much less conventional choice. People seem to buy Jags because they like them. They like the sound they make or they like the way they look. To me, that seems to be much more akin to the mindset behind the purchase of one of the more exotic brands you listed.

But again, that might just be me.

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > MegaSuper 06/22/2015 at 22:14

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I’d put Bentley, Maserati, and Tesla in that middle group you’re looking for. I know they’re comparable, but I don’t see Bentley as level with Rolls Royce...where RR seems legit, Bentley seems like a car for somebody who wants to appear more affluent than they are. Tesla, I think, has a higher perceived value because of their relative rarity, even though they’re probably a comparable to BMW and Audi.

Wobbles the Mind > MegaSuper 06/22/2015 at 22:17

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I would also argue for noncar people that Jaguar, Porsche, and the Range Rover subbrand are seen as “high-luxury” rather than “consumer luxury” brands. I kind of tier things as: Tier 2 Mass Market, Tier 1 Mass Market, Premium and Sportscar, Luxury and High Performance, High-Luxury and Exotic Entry, Opulent and Exotic, and Beyond Comprehension.

Baeromez > MegaSuper 06/22/2015 at 22:20

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Cadillac.

*mic drop*

Brian Silvestro > MegaSuper 06/22/2015 at 22:34

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Maserati Porsche Alfa Romeo

AthomSfere > MegaSuper 06/22/2015 at 23:04

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I’s say you already named a few, just mis-tiered them: Ordered bottom to top:

BMW, Merc, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti

Jaguar, Aston Martin, Tesla, Porsche (And Halo cars like Corvette z01, Camaro ZL1, Viper, NSX, although the LFA I think gets a bump to Lambo heights)

Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren

AthomSfere > DylanToback 06/22/2015 at 23:06

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That was one of my answers as well, and Aston Martin was a middle tier IMO.

AthomSfere > DylanToback 06/22/2015 at 23:09

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I agree here, most BMW 3 series owners for example buy a BMW much the same way a Mustang owner does.

I need something fast, uh, Mustang is all I know!

I need something that says I have reached success and maturity, BMW. Damn, those aren’t cheap... OOh, a 3 series is a good compromise.

MegaSuper > AthomSfere 06/23/2015 at 00:01

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You’re the second person to suggest Aston is mid-tier; can you explain why? I’m curious. Check out my reply to Eric in the PNW.

MegaSuper > Baeromez 06/23/2015 at 00:03

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Gahh, haha, see, I forgot them! They are sort of an unconventional choice (even in the USA as far as I understand it. Very rare to see here in Europe.)

MegaSuper > Wobbles the Mind 06/23/2015 at 00:04

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I like how you have those sub-tiers; would you mind giving an example of each?

AthomSfere > MegaSuper 06/23/2015 at 00:13

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Their performance is pretty raw, much like an AMG Merc, they aren’t cheap, and you just don’t see them very often. I think I have seen more Lamborghini and Ferraris in the wild than I have Aston Martins and I always have to stop and look at the driver.

Wobbles the Mind > MegaSuper 06/23/2015 at 00:35

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Tier 2 Mass Market: Mazda, Kia,

Tier 1 Mass Market: Toyota, Hyundai, Chevrolet

Premium and Sportscar: Buick/Opel, GMC, Acura, V8 Mustang/Challenger, 370Z

Luxury and High Performance: Lexus, Cadillac, German 3, and their sport subbrands

High-Luxury and Entry Exotic: Porsche, Jaguar, Maserati, Ranges Rovers and show level classics

Opulent and Exotic: Aston Martin, Rolls Royce, Ferrari, McLaren, Rare Classics

Beyond Comprehension: Koenigsegg, Bugatti, any vehicles over $500K.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Wobbles the Mind 06/23/2015 at 04:33

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Came here to say that...

MegaSuper > Wobbles the Mind 06/23/2015 at 05:51

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I like this a lot! If there were an OppoWiki, this should be in it!

Where would you put those wacky British shed-cars? Stuff like Ariel, Ginetta, TVR, Invicta, Marcos, etc?

MegaSuper > AthomSfere 06/23/2015 at 05:52

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Hmm. Well, respectfully, what bearing does rarity have on tier? I thought you were going to say something along the lines of “Their cars are no longer competitive vs. Ferrari and Lambo”. But then again, that’s not really their competition. Then AGAIN, who is? …Jaguar? Haha sort of confusing

Alex B > That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms 06/23/2015 at 08:07

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These were my suggestions.

Wobbles the Mind > MegaSuper 06/23/2015 at 08:36

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Im less familiar with those brands. But I would assume Marcos, Ginetta, Invicta would run with Lotus in the “Luxury and High Performance” or “High Luxury and Entry Exotic” depending on the models (if it starts near $100K it’s up with Porsche, under and it runs with BMW). The Ariel, zero livability, type vehicles I would place in the Entry Exotic due to rarity on streets and the difference in lifestyle someone would have to buy a “hobby” vehicle. As an American, the TVR brand is pretty much a British Lamborghini in my mind while McLaren is more Ferrari focused.

AthomSfere > MegaSuper 06/23/2015 at 09:21

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I would argue Aston isn’t competitive with some Tier 1 cars, but their level of luxury and rarity bump them.

Rarity I think bumps them because we are talking about perception of exclusivity, basically, correct? The fact that on the road kids in dropped vee-dubs stop and stare certainly adds to the tieryness of a car ;)

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > Alex B 06/23/2015 at 17:24

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Then you're a smart dude.